GAB is full of Dems.
I could echo your enter comment and change Republican to Democrat.

The fairest ruling to come out of the GAB IS to have a single primary and single general election. If not, the primary would have also been a general election for some but not others.

You know, there's a difference in voting across party lines and running for office in a different party.

Tim, I think it's fair to assume the Republican tactic here is to erode support for the real candidates to try to gum up the elections. I point out that if these politicians had actually done their jobs instead of being sycophantic rubber stampers for ALEC, they might not be facing recall. Coke, Intuit, Pepsi, Wendy's, McDonalds, Kraft are now shunning ALEC because of their ludicrous, radicalized agenda; it's time for Wisconsin to do the same.

@Bren -

Considering that the RPW is doing nothing to promote, endorse, or campaign on behalf of the fake candidates, I don't see the facts upon which you're making the conclusion that the intent behind such strategy "is to erode support for the real candidates to try to gum up the elections."

In fact and in REALITY, it would appear that the RPW is running the fake candidates to assure that there is one primary and one general election held for all recalled public officials/representatives and that such elections take place on the same dates for all of the recall elections, just as they've asserted to the media and in this article.

But please, indulge us as to your conspiracy theory hidden agenda behind this move, as I'm certain it must have something to do with the Koch Bros, right?

ALEC ALEC ALEC.
You're a one page book Bren. Give it a rest

@JRH -- Holding the recall elections all on the same day is well and good. But since there is a Democratic primary already in the gubernatorial recall, there's no need for Gladys Huber to run. Perhaps sh'ed do the right thing and drop out?

Dont talk about no moral compass you and the rest of your kind started this whole mess because of your greed and dont tell me its about bargining rights it is all about the money . You claim to be educated people and then show your true colors by your antic in the captial and getting phoney Dr. excuess shame shame so your bought and paid for lackeys on the board let you down

Mr. Hoffa, no conspiracy theories here, not even subtlety. ALEC's right out there in the open, exposed by the Trayvon Martin and Bo Morrison cases for what it is. I believe "fake" candidates are a game strategy, regardless of which party does it. Meanwhile real live people in this state need food, services and above all, jobs.

Steve, I'll bet the families of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin and 20-year-old Bo Morrison wish that ALEC had "given it a rest" instead of writing ludicrous Stand Your Ground legislation for puppet politicians to pass.

Sorry if you would prefer to pretend that ALEC isn't focused on sedition-for-profit, but people need to go to the polls with ALL of the information available.

Wow....

Grasping for straws doesn't even come close to describing how crazy you are here on Patch.

@Bren -

You could have fooled me, as both sides are running fake candidates in the upcoming recall elections, and yet you only trash the Republicans for doing so while remaining silent as to Mr. Kohl-Riggs.

Again, your hypocrisy has been exposed!

@Bren -

You're honestly going to sit here and lecture us on political "gamesmanship" when you're one of the WORST offenders for perpetuating such here on the Patch boards?

Are you for real?

Your attack on women is disgusting Bren

Mr. Hoffa I'm not sure what you mean...?

Steve, where did I attack women? Did I sign legislation that will make it more difficult for women in this state to get redress for wage discrimination? Did I sign legislation that undermines family planning education in public schools? Did I sign legislation to add barriers to women's ability to get a legal abortion? These bills are prime examples of attacking women's rights in my opinion.

Dmitry, is this microphone on??

Steve - Thank You!

Bren - Steve beat me to it. Give ALEC a rest.

@ Bren,
Why not have more barriers to get an abortion? I am all for as many barriers as one can come up with. Ending a life, should remain serious business don't you agree?

@Bren -

Lt. Governor Kleefisch is an integral part of and has been spear-heading Walker's 'Wisconsin is Open for Business' agenda. Perhaps the reason you haven't seen much of her is because she has been busy trying to attract employers to our state, which has been made all the more difficult by the political instability and uncertainty created by your side's perpetual temper tantrum.

If Lawton was so "committed to our state's economy," as you claim, then why did our state suffer one of the worst exodus of jobs in its history under her watch? Apparently, Ms. Lawton wasn't very effective at her job, was she?

Funny. In the private sector when we pay for our benefits and they may increase over the years we never call that a pay cut. But when a democrat using the public union employee as a pawn explains the same, it is a wage cut.

Mr. Hoffa, photo opps don't qualify as a full-time job. Barbara Lawton traveled the state continuously and was an ever-present, extremely well-informed, articulate, and gracious champion for the economy and education in our state. The difference between Barbara Lawton and Rebecca Kleefisch is profound. And I reiterate, "fake" candidate-placing smacks of poor sportsmanship, or what you call "temper tantrum."

And if memory serves, and tomes will be written about the Great Recession I'm sure, but I'm fairly certain that history will not point at Barbara Lawton as being a/the causal factor...

@Bren -

That's funny, because Lawton had 8 years while Kleefisch has yet to have a full year unimpeded by your side's antics to accomplish her goals. Also, other states with better leadership, such as Utah, North Dakota, Montana, Texas, etc, all managed to make it through the 'Great Recession' with fewer job losses than Wisconsin, so obviously team Doyle/Lawton must have had something to do with this disparity. But why let comparative facts get in the way of a good emotional plea, right?

Mr. Hoffa, I believe you have to review the economic base of each region to determine why some areas were hit harder than others. For example, the housing crisis hit Nevada and Florida much harder than some other regions. We know that offshoring has had a severe impact on manufacturing and entry-level customer service jobs (call centers, etc.). But I'm not sharing anything you don't know.

The recession has had a global impact as we all know. That's why it was ludicrous for Scott Walker to make his 250,000 job claim. If he actually believed he could do it reinforces my thesis that he lacks the intellectual heft to be the Governor of a state with 5 million residents. If he cynically lied to win the election it further suggests that he lacks the moral character to be Governor. I formed these questions early in Scott Walker's stint as CE.

Yes, elected politicians receive very good pay and benefits. When one is doing well, especially over a longer period of time, it's easy to lose touch with how actual people live; or perhaps even to care. Perhaps they even stop seeing constituents as human beings and more as pawns in a game.

Bren I suggest you move to Illinois where your ideas are openly accepted by the goobermint.

Alfred, I'd prefer to remain in my home state and work on restoring balance here. ; )

In some other countries, denigrating your government in a public forum as you have done would be considered a detainable offense. We are fortunate to live in a country that values free speech, aren't we?

Bren - FYI - you forgot to mention ALEC in your response.

Ima, we weren't actually discussing ALEC at that moment, but thank you for bringing it up. The more we can keep this insidious special interest group and remind people of Scott Walker's involvement with their legislation, the more it helps the recall effort.
Thank you again!

Not bad for a 23 y.o. The crook in office could learn a thing or two from the young man.

Mike, sarcasm aside, I research. The more information people have the better decisions they will make.

Some get annoyed with the continuing references to ALEC and the Koch brothers but one cannot discuss Scott Walker without also considering his allegiances and priorities.

Bren - phew, thankfully you have mentioned ALEC again.

The daily kos is research, lol

Steve, DailyKos is a liberal online community comprised of many voices. It has a roster of authors who present sourced analysis, but I would not consider it the same type of news source that I would the Wall Street Journal or New York Times.

My research sources are main stream domestic and international media. Also peer-reviewed research/white papers, etc.

Thanks, lavelle, that was very helpful.

lavelle has typed these sage words before in other threads. They underscore the poor sportsmanship currently exhibited by the extreme right of the GOP.

Bren - can you mention Obama without Soros?

Ima, yes. The Open Society Foundations fund data management projects that support political campaigns (beneficial to both parties) and also do wonderful work in exposing poverty, crimes/exploitation of women, and working to end hunger worldwide. Thank you for providing the opportunity to showcase the humanitarian commitment of George Soros and the Open Society Foundations!

Massive crossover voting by Republicans for Gladys Huber could theoretically give her a plurality, since the legitimate Democratic votes will be split between Barrett and Falk, mostly. And that would mean everyone who plans to vote for Walker votes for Huber in the primary and then votes for Walker in the election.

It's a dirty trick for sure.

@Randy1949 -

How come I can't find any disparaging remarks from you on Jason's blog wherein he was bragging about voting for Rick Santorum in the Republican Presidential primary?

Apparently, these dirty cross voting tricks are tolerable when committed by those supporting Democrats, but unethical when done by those supporting Republicans. An interesting dynamic at play here indeed.

@Randy1949 -

BTW - You conveniently forgot to mention anything about Mr. Kohl-Riggs' presence in the Republican primary.

@JRH -- I won't be voting for Mr. Kohl-Riggs, since I'm interested in the outcome of the Dem primary.

@Randy1949 -

Can you honestly guarantee that someone like Patzfahl wouldn't vote for Kohl-Riggs if he stays on the ballot? In fact, I seem to recall HRG's most recent editorial wherein she endorsed the concept of voting for Kohl-Riggs in the primary, remember. There seems to be a 'do anything to win' mentality being projected by your side's most vocal advocates. So, there's two lefties already on the bandwagon that have openly endorsed this idea here on the Patch. How many righties can you point to that have openly endorsed attempting to corrupt the Democratic primary here on Patch? I'm personally not aware of a single one, but I've been absent all last week.

If you want to have credibility on this matter, it would probably be best to call out the dirty tricks being committed by your own side first and foremost before focussing on those being done on the opposing side. In all honesty and reality, both sides are guilty of such tricks. So to condemn one but not the other doesn't really help you to appear all that genuine, does it? Until one side really does take a moral/ethical high ground approach to the open primary system, the only thing that can be said from either side is that it's nothing more than politics as usual.

@JRH -- I am not Patzfahl's and Geyer's keeper. And if you and I had to call out every instance of bad behavior on our respective 'sides' we'd never get anything else said.

I have quite sincerely voted in GOP Presidential primaries (even voted for one candidate in the general election) so this ability can be both used and misused. I really doubt that every Walker supporter in the state is going to vote for Huber in the primary -- I mean, SOME of you have ethics. The recallers most likely feel the Dem primary is too important to blow off by voting for young Mr. Lincoln there.

@Randy1949 -

Apparently, you missed Celeste Koeberl's above link, as even your boy Nichols is endorsing voting for Kohl-Riggs in the primary!

Check it out here: http://host.madison.com/ct/news/opinion/column/john_nichols/john-nichols-a-lincoln-la-follette-republican/article_3aafaa07-0c42-53bd-ba85-a88472528575.html

Hoffa
So you are claiming that K-R is a Democrat??

..............
James R Hoffa

3:27 pm on Tuesday, April 17, 2012

@Bren -

You could have fooled me, as both sides are running fake candidates in the upcoming recall elections, and yet you only trash the Republicans for doing so while remaining silent as to Mr. Kohl-Riggs.

Again, your hypocrisy has been exposed!

Just like Abraham Lincoln did when he was a state legislator to deny a quorum. All he had to do was go out a window, but our fellows had to cross the state line to make it legal, Alfie boy.

@Randy1949 -

As I understand the FACTS of the situation, Lincoln's exodus lasted all of about 3 hours and he actually participated in the ultimate vote on the legislation that was being proposed.

In contrast, the Dem 14's exodus lasted over 3 weeks and the vote recorded on behalf of all of their constituents was 'absent' instead of 'nay.'

In reality, there isn't very much of a comparison between these two situations at all, is there? Probably best to drop this severely flawed talking point, don't you think?

The principle is the same. The flight of the state senators gave the rest of us time to see what was happening. And Alfred may be right -- we may lose this recall, but at least we are no longer getting screwed over in our sleep.

Run Dems Run

What an embarrassment to actually defend their coward act

@Randy1949 -

Honestly, who didn't know about what was going on in Madison after the first week and half of their exodus, which just so happened to coincide with the Capitol occupation?

You know as well as Hoffa that there is no reason in the world that prevented them from returning to vote on the bill on behalf of all of their constituents instead of pandering to the wishes of a select special interest which resulted in all of the voices from those districts as having been recorded as being 'absent' - you honestly believe that Lincoln would have supported such a slight against entire constituencies? I don't think so, because Lincoln actually voted - he wasn't 'absent' like your beloved Dem 14 were.

HUGE DIFFERENCE my friend!

@JRH -- Since I've just finished reading John Nichol's book, I dispute your causality and timeline just a bit. An absent vote was the same as a no vote, only the delay allowed for some of us to learn what was going on and to contact our state legislators. Not that any of mine would listen to me.

Farrow, at least, was decent enough to answer me, I give him props for that. Too bad I've been redistricted out of his area.

@Randy1949 -

Weren't you just arguing 'principle'? When elected to be in Madison to vote, most of your constituency expects you to be in Madison and vote - it's an issue of principle, isn't it?

Nichols is as partisan as they come! He lost any credibility he might have had when he wrote that hit piece about Ryan that was a reaction to an onion-style parody piece on a liberal blog that Nichols never bothered to fact check before publishing. It's journalists like him that have denigrated a once proud profession.

@JRH -- They were voting 'no' as effectively as they could. More effectively than if they'd stayed and been steam-rolled. And that's what they were sent to do. Just like my two legislators voted yes, even over my objections.

@Rany1949 -

Perhaps you could assist me, as I'm having a problem finding the Senate Rule wherein it states that being absent counts as a 'noes' vote on a question, as you've asserted here.

In fact, Senate Rule 72 states quite clearly that:

"(1) The ayes and noes may be ordered by the presiding officer for any vote and shall be ordered when demanded by one-sixth of the members present. The chief clerk shall record the votes taken by ayes and noes, report the result, and enter the report in the journal together with the names of those absent or not voting."

Thus, those absent count the same as those not voting, or as nothing.

And Senate Rule 73 makes it quite clear that only "[a]ll members present when a question is put shall vote as their names are called. For a special cause the senate may excuse a member from voting, but it is not in order for a member to be excused after the senate has commenced voting. "

Accordingly, I don't believe that you are being accurate when you assert that being absent counted as a 'noes' vote on behalf of each of those absent senator's constituencies.

So, no, the Senators could not perform their elected duties effectively from IL, as the rules make it quite clear that in order to vote, you must be present when the vote is called. Accordingly, those Senators violated the oath that they took to all their constituents when they chose to instead pander to a select special interest.

Lincoln upheld his oath by actually voting!

Try harder, Alfred. It takes more than that to insult me.

Tim, if Scott Walker wins again that flag will read "ALEC." And your slogan will read, "Wisconsin...a state of real choice ... lower pay for women, politicians in your kid's sex ed class, and who needs education anyway." What do you think, Tim? Catchy, isn't it?

Nice to see this made up war on women when faced with the fact that what Walker has done is overwhelming working in such a positive way.
Having sex ed in public schools by definition is having a politician in the class room.

@Bren -

Could you please explain for me how Walker effectively repealed federal legislation that requires that women be paid equally for equal work? It's known as the Equal Pay Act of 1963, in case you've never heard of it until now. I wasn't aware that a state Governor could effectively countermand federal legislation??? Isn't there something in the Constitution known as 'the supremacy clause' that prevents a state from being able to do such a thing??? And yet, you still claim that Walker did this - HOW???

Please Bren, educate us with your infinite wisdom, or at least admit that you're perpetuating LIES to advance your own political agenda.

Mr. Hoffa, Scott Walker didn't repeal the Equal Pay Act of 1963 as well you know. Careful, your "tone" is becoming a bit histrionic. Perhaps some castor oil? ; )

@Bren -

Then how exactly do you justify claiming that Walker enacted "lower pay for women?"

Your admittance to the existence of the Equal Pay Act and the fact that Walker did not repeal it appears to be in stark contrast with your earlier statement, doesn't it?

Perpetuating a fabricated and utterly FALSE 'war on women' argument to advance your own political agenda is very unbecoming of you Bren.

Make that two tablespoons of castor oil, Mr. Hoffa! You are as familiar with the new bill as I.

Alfred Kell, placing "fake" Democrats on primary ballots doesn't suggest good sportsmanship to me. Nor does your post,

"I think it would be a good idea to invest heavily in all makers of anti depressant medicines, these lefty lunatics won't take losing like grown ups, they are nuts."

But it does speak to the issue at hand. Shouldn't good politicians be seeking balance and consensus instead of reveling in "drop the bomb" hubris? After all, we are all on Team Wisconsin. ALEC agenda and their puppet governor and his sycophants are driving a stake through the heart of our state. And low information voters are helping to hammer it in.

Did someone named Alec break your heart? Why this obsession?

Alfred, ALEC is special interest organization, not an individual. Actually, ALEC is breaking my heart because it hurts to see Trayvon Martin's parents on TV talking about their dead teenage son. Stand Your Ground may be effectively used to set a killer free.

Low information--that stung, did it? If you arm yourself with knowledge on a daily basis, why not write from that informed standpoint? It would be far more impressive.

But I have to admit, "sweetheart" is growing on me, thanks to Mr. Hoffa and Humphrey Bogart! ; )

@Bren -

If that's the case, then I certainly hope that you are in fact a female, which, under such circumstances, you'll always be my 'sweetheart' :-)

@Alfred Kell....Throw that CV out there and let's take a look. Most major newspapers and NPR doesn't make you informed, just current. Come on out and let's see what you're really all about.

@Lyle -

Hi Lyle, it's been a while. How are you doing? How come you're not running for the District 10 Assembly seat - you'd make a far better candidate than Pasch!

@JRH...I couldn't run even if I wanted to, too many skeletons in my past. Besides, political office are for people much younger than I, but thanks for the compliment.

I didn't say I was female. I prefer to remain an enigma wrapped in a conundrum. ; )

@Bren -- There will be no wrapping of enigmas within any conundrums here. It's abstinence-only from here on out.

Randy, perhaps "Abstinence Only" should be our new state motto! Or, "In ALEC we trust."

Replace conservative and republican with liberal and democrat then you'll have the truth. What people like yourself hate is that Republicans are staring to wise up and use the Dems own playbook and they're good at it aren't they? You just keep being proud of the hate you support.

@Tim...It's quite simple. Liberals have the intelligence to deal with complex issues and conservatives are only able to concentrate on single issues at a time.

Thank you, Tim. You have hit the nail on the head. All these issues are so hard to keep up with, that's why we rely on you Republicans to keep doing it for us. So which one are you; Ehrlichman, Haldeman, Mitchel or Dean? Why can't you Republicans run on your own merits, or is it you don't have any? When are you going to realize that as citizens of this country, we have an obligation to take care of what we have inherited from those that went before us, not look for new and more impressive ways to cheat, lie and use corrupt methods to win elections? It's been said that if we don't learn from History, we are doomed to repeat it. Watergate happened 40 years ago. Your tactics didn't win then and they won't win now.

When you can write a comprehendable question, perhaps you will get an answer. Do you know anything about ALEC and it's history? Do you know how it was started? Do you know who funds it?

Does it make sense to you that your elected officials go to conferences and come back with "templates" of proposed laws and just throw them into the legistlative hopper?

You must spend way too much time watching FAUX and listening to Limbaugh.

Get back to us when you can answer these questions.

Rage? Union thugs and greedy teachers exudes love.

@Tim...I am the first one to criticize a number of liberals based on a lack of pragmatism. Liberals are just vulnerable as conservatives to myopic vision. However, no matter the intelligence involved doesn't preclude mass stupidity and beliefs in mythology. We will not solve any of the problems on the table as long as we are fighting over ideology and extreme special interests. We have to fully recover from the recession and then take on a number of issues that have been pushed to the back burner.

@morninmist -

The Daily Kos again??? This article provides absolutely no context on the bills it references.

You may as well just linked us here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt23PXj7DAI&feature=related

lol

Thanks for the propaganda Misty you really proved this is a real war and not one played by liberals for 30 years to shift the view from their terrible record and focus that attention on republicans who have real solutions but can't let anyone listen to them as liberals need the power for more hope and change and free stuff.

@morninmist -

All that praise and no endorsement? Yeah, keep telling yourself that! Nichols isn't fooling anyone except you.

The idea of both sides negotiating bills is indeed to be praised-as John did.
But you would rather have Walker and his "drop the bomb" mentality continue on.

Meanwhile, Scooter will be voted out.

chaz ‏ @chaz1944

Walker signs ALEC-written War on Women/Children/Workers legislation like an obedient tool http://scottwalkerwatch.com/2012/04/06/walker-signs-alec-written-war-on-womenchildren-legislation-like-an-obedient-tool/ via @scottwalkerwtch