Agreed that numbers are not being devulged to keep people signing up. with respect to 40% being thrown out - where do you get your numbers from? I signed and the signatures on the sheet I signed looked legitimate to me. Wake up, WI is rock bottom on job creation and Walker is destroying WI with his crazy ideas. Time for a change and quick! I don't know where some of you Walker supporters get your income from but hopefully you are not on social security or medicare or badgercare as they are social welfare programs and you are apparently against any type of social welfare program.

When does Mike Tate announce his candidacy?

"At least 40% of the signatures are going to be thrown out."

That's what Sykes is telling you. You refuse to believe that so many people in Wisconsin are done with this thug. So keep listening to Charlie, and plug your ears after Walker's goons try to discredit the signatures and the election date is set.

No, that's what I'm telling Sykes. "done with this thug" Really? After one year and fixing our massive deficit, paying back our loans all while lowering our taxes and avoiding massive layoffs... what exactly are you done with? After the truly thug like behavior we put up with Doyle and the horrible condition he left this state how can you possibly defend where we came from vs. where we are now? Would you rather that we owe money to neighboring states, have our taxes massively increased, public workers laid off by the thousands and unemployment pushing 20%? Because that’s where we were going if it wasn’t for Walker’s willingness to do what is necessary to put us back on the right path? The silent majority will ensure that Mr. Walker stays in office for a very long time.

What have you been hearing? According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Wisconsin had the largest loss of jobs of any other state in November. Over 14,600 jobs were lost! Not only that, but we're on the longest job-loss streak of any other state. Five months of straight losses!
How can you ignore that?
(http://www.bls.gov/news.release/laus.nr0.htm)

40%? Your forget the republicans are not doing the signature collection. I would guess that it will be less than 10% based on the training and the cross checking that is performed before they even get turned in.

You should really considering growing a brain. Would help so much in writing comments that don't appear so clownish (like this one).

I'm sorry, real issues? Stripping teachers of rights didn't save any money, he even said so. Where are the 250,000 jobs he promised? Where are any jobs he promised? The real issue is not abusing the middle class.

First of all David, nobody stripped anybody's rights. And before you go any further, check the bill of rights and show us where the teachers rights are. Collective bargaining is NOT a right! You libs need to really get that through your heads.

Sam, you think us liberials have it all wrong, yet you conservatives have demonified public employees, teachers of all people who make very little in context with the corporate world. Yet taking away the abilty to collectively bargin has not reduced debt, not reduced unemployment, not benifited the state of Wisconsin in anyway. It has harmed it's citizens for the for what? For the Koch Brothers? For corporations that continue to get welfare from the State of Wisconsin?

800 million in corporate tax breaks sure dosent seem to buy much. In fact it looks like many are taking thier bribe money, packing up and leaving poor walker high and dry. Instead of watching walker ads you may get better and more factual information from cartoons.

Bigger the better.

And so will the Democats, "abc def".

It wont be over until there is a new govenor and the tea party is driven out of all public offices.

If she did, we'd have all 80 thrown off. Is that the way the paid collectors for the GOP do it Craig?

Ha ha. No surprise that you would actually believe any volunteer would collect out of state signature. You are so eager to continuously post Lies.

I wouldn't know Keith. I believe an election is an election and the results should stand regardless.
I think we are going to see recalls before a term is finished for years to come now. When they start to charge for elections you can stand tall.

Craig! You are too funny! I love it! You are so right about Fonda!

Too funny Craig; I heard a lot of the Badger team members from Wisconsin signed it. And Walker got booed so loud he refused to take the stage.

Sorry dude I hate unions almost as much as I hate walker. Walker has done nothing to help the state other than depress its economy, lose jobs, and give away 800 million to the corporate buddies who paid to put him is office. He has bragged about his job creation skills, where are the jobs? With all the millions he has spent and millions in tax breaks he is promising, he seems to be losing jobs as fast as he gives away the money.

Hope they don't spend that $2.00 in one place.

$8.00??

If you're lucky.

$686.00 So bite me.

$2.00
$8.00
or $686.00.
Does it matter? For the first time in five years property taxes in Wisconsin have gone down.

The sad thing is ,you actually believe it was Gov. Walker's policies that lowered you taxes and not the over all nation wide devaluation of real estate cause but the Bush fire recession.

Well mine went up $110 and I anticipate double that next years, so I guess walker is gonna send me your money.

You did good and are an inspiration to WI attempting to recall Walker and his TeaGOP buddies in our Legislature.

The reforms were NOT implemented in Ohio so the people never got to see how they work. The difference? People in WI. are seeing that Gov. Walkers reforms are working. The nonsense recallers may get the signatures, but there will be no change for the governor.

Keith best
Nonsense most of walkers moves have yet to be felt. Most dont take effect till next year. The cities, towns, counties and schools are still on the money from the last budget. It will take a year or two before the local governments feel the cuts and start raising taxes and fees to compensate. Look at minnesota where pawlenty made most of the moves that walker is unsing now eight years ago. real estate taxes have more than doubled and will be triple by next year. Yep you just wait and you will see how good his reforms are, you are saying exactly what the pawlenty supporters said eight years ago. Funny most are silent now.

I would prefer not. They can send it to Mary Bell, she needs it to do more ads on the DEVASTATION of public schools. She's a moron.

Then Walker owes me money.

I'm sure he does Keith, you seem like a person that is destined to be cared for by the state.

Then walker owes me 110 dollars. But if you did get a reduction in taxes it is not because of anything walker did. His cuts for the most part have not really hit the budget yet. The schools and cities are still working on last years money. The cuts wont kick in to this fiscal year. So lets talk about taxes in two years and see how much you are saving. It took Pawlentys cuts in minnesota three years to actually hit. over 5 years property taxes have doubled and by 9 should be triple. Now the tax defaults are kicking in so cities have raise on those that are paying. MN also has the tax cap that walker brags about but the increases are in service fees added to the tax bill. They now include surcharges for storm sewers, property frontage on streets, street lights, signs, street maint., and a number of others. Wait before you crow the cities and counties are getting big holes in thier budgets they need to fill. Plus you lost the cap on teacher salaries so now they will get raises just like other public workers and those at the pay cap are now can also get raises. Walkers impact have yet to be felt by us.

Absolutely! How to keep the libs from cheating and stealing another election?

Yes, I suppose pro-Walker vote is in grave danger of being suppressed.

Ah Sam, Kathy Nicholaus is a Republican.

Well then I guess someone forgot to tell the Democratic party that it wasn't news. From the article above:

"That's because the state Democratic Party said today it was not going to provide anymore updates on how close organizers are to gathering the 540,280 signatures needed to force a recall election or hitting organizer's internal goal of collecting 720,000 signatures."

Face it yourself. The days of the unions buying elections and union thugs intimidating people are over. I completely support Governor Walker.

Not saying that I agree with you, but I will argue using your logic... Why would you rather have out of state mega millionaires buy your elections rather than a large group of in state tax payers? Something to think about.

You really have no clue. Which rocket scientist Democrat will run against Walker. I really hope it is one of the idiot Democrat senators whose answer to political adversity is to run away to Illinios.

Like you're part of the 1%. George Carlin said it all when he told you "it's an exclusive club & you & I are not members nor will we ever be."

You sort of forgot that one little thing that happens if the recall works. THE ELECTION. You really need a candidate, really.

Really Carrol??? He balanced the budget, paid back our debts, all while lowing taxes and NOT laying off a single public employee. Is that the damage you are referring to?

Well, up to 500 MPS teachers and staff lost their job; about 300 workers at Ethan Allen received closure notices, the Wisconsin Arts Board lost 2/3 of its staff and was merged with the Wisconsin Department of Tourism. The 2011-13 budget calls for 21,000+ state workers to be removed from the payroll altogether or replaced by crony appointments.

Personally, I think cutting jobs in the midst of the worst recession since the Great Depression is a terrible strategy. Instead of using their purchasing power to bolster the economy, they will be collecting unemployment. Meanwhile, people who need services experience longer delays.

Bren we have told you many many times. MPS did not follow the Walker reform and choose the union. They then had to lay off teachers. You know this, you choose to lie which is why socialism is on retreat here in WI.

Sam, hope this link helps clarify the issue: http://www.fox6now.com/news/witi-20110608-mps-budget,0,261935.story. My apologies for sharing a link that isn't from a valid news source, but the author actually and cogently presented the known facts about MPS.

MPS employees had already made $40m in concessions prior to the new contract, which is why the additional $19m was considered egregious (my word) and turned it down. It begs the question: Why indeed should other people be forced to accept substandard wages when bank and Wall Street CEOs are making millions while fleecing the American public?

Also, the 2011-12 MPS budget is $182m less than it was last year. Sam, do you honestly believe that a $182m budget cut would not end in staffing cuts? Where else would the cuts be made--enrollment? No more school lunches? Where?

You can repeat spin endlessly, wash, rinse, repeat, Sam, but it doesn't turn it into fact. Your remark about "Socialism" is just more frivolous, fear-based wish-spin. I live in the reality-based world. I'm less afraid of Socialism than I am of low information voters who swallow the self-serving right-wing propaganda of would-be plutocrats hook, line, and sinker. No questions asked because they're lazy. Those are the people who are going to end up scratching their armpits and asking, "what happened to America?" while the rest of us hold our heads in our hands.

Bren@ Really? MPS was scheduled to lay off the same number of employees one year prior to the Governor even being elected and you know this! They used one time federal stimulus money " education jobs fund" to temporarily plug this hole. Anyone who is honest knows that MPS was going to have to deal with the cuts this year!

Ben, we all know that MPS has been dealing with budget cuts for years, as have most school districts around the state. Your point is valid, and now exacerbated by the new $1.2 billion statewide education cut. Sam thought there have been no public employee layoffs and I corrected him.

Pretty sure Sam was "getting real" Please tell us of all this damage.

Carol...please...from you own personal experience...what damage are you referring to? We all want to know.

For example, the cuts in education alone are a poor trade for artifically balancing a budget that was not broken in the first place--except after the governor cut taxes to create the actual shortfall. As a UW grad in the 1970s, I was able to pick myself up by the proverbial bootstraps. A poorly educated population is a worse society.

The cuts were already coming, and the ones from years before they came down from Doyle. Try again.
Tax breaks for business just went into effect in 2012. They have nothing do do with 2011 fiscal numbers a huge lie by the left.
try again
Teachers are on the job, not laid off and children are being educated
try again

Still wanting to hear about some destruction, I have a feeling you have been told all of this before but will continue the talking points of the recall.

Madison and Milwaukee had to cut teachers. Class size is outrageous in those districts. Public education was defunded in WI by $84-million (or is that fact somehow a "talking point.") I doubt that the private schools serving the 1% spent less on their children, and for a good reason: it takes more resources than public education has to produce an educated population that can aspire to improve their lot. The result of this policy is to take away the ladder that leads up in society to a better life, and that is neither a bargain for civilization nor what made this country great in the first instance.

In Milwaukee, the average compensation package totaled over $100K. The superintendent attempted to get the union to go along with a concession so that some of those teachers would have been able to stay on the job. The union refused. The concessions were reasonable, certainly no where near the concessions made in the private sector.

If you're going to lay blame for the taking away of a "ladder that leads up in society to a better life" (a bombastic exaggeration and, particularly the case of Milwaukee, a ladder that for most didn't lead anywhere of the sort), then you're going to have to lay part of that blame at the feet of a union more interested in not compromising in a reasonable fashion than in making the best of the situation for its clients - the children of Milwaukee.

Bob,
I met a teacher who grew up around here who is working in Alaska. He said it was MPS or Alaska, and he would never go to MPS. I concur. Average salary can be all it wants down there, I wont go. How do you attract teachers to an undesirable community? I guess you could pay them more than the desirable community.

Steven- Milwaukee chose their union buddies over the children once again. They had the chance to use the Walker tools and went with their liberal gut. They got what was coming to them. And still somehow this is a strike against Walker.

Class size is union jibbirish for we need to hire more teachers. What does MPS have 46% or so daily truancy? I doubt those classes are very full in reality.

The real reason behind the "union busting" provisions is to allow for future elections to be bought by rich Republicans with no way to counter their message. These moves go hand-in-hand with the re-districting and Voter ID law that was passed. Add in Walker's inclusion of the provision to, at his personal discretion, sell off WI resources and services, like power generation (see Koch Brothers) and you see the danger in Walker's and the Republican agenda! If Walker was really about jobs, fairness and helping EVERYONE in WI, I would be behind him.

Steve, here's a link to an online article from January 2011 that states that the corporate tax breaks were part of Walker's new measures to make Wisconsin "business friendly." It also states that (at that point) Walker had not yet come up with a way to pay for the $117m in proposed tax cuts: http://www.fox6now.com/news/politics/witi-20110131-walker-tax-bill,0,6398564.story

@shinnyDude... is it possible that you could write a response that is coherent and readable? Whatever you write is so illiterate to be incomprehensible. Were you home schooled perhaps.

Until you can write a literate post, why should anyone pay any attention to you?

Federal funds were only allocated to a High speed rail, which was a silly idea to start with. Could not use the money for any other maintenance of existing rail or infrastructure. you know like roads to drive cars on which we all have already. Nope, had to be spent on a car speed train to Madison. Which burns diesel fuel. Evil oil corporation supporting Obama you would have though it would be solar powered by Solandra.

Dummy: The $810 Million was to build high speed rail. NOT to be used for maintaining rail. The $60K maintenance per year would need to come out of your pocket. The $810 Million was not "free", unless you do not pay Federal taxes.
Wow one would think there were giant cuts to education back in your day.

I believe Carrol is referring to the 31 million Walker budgeted to renovate the Hiawatha line, which would have been included in the federal grant.

The California high speed rail construction project is spending out, for all the capital costs, at more than double the amount the voters of California were promised, with their approval of a statewide binding referendum. The federal government is not funding the cost over-run, the California taxpayer is. Looks to me like the MKE-MAD $810 million dollar 'federal gift train' may have de-railed the Wisconsin taxpayer for an additional $810 million dollars or more, as Wisconsin was going to agreed to cover all over-runs by accepting the federal money.

Jay, you're comparing two very different scenarios. California has been planning for high speed rail since early 2000s, altered and expanded there project, and is 5 times bigger than the Wisconsin rail project would have been. Due to an extra $1 billion federal dollars being allocated to California, they expanded their project even more.

@Joe Greenfield... The cost per mile, for the first 66 mile section, is running about double of the Magic-8-Ball designed/engineered/budgeted plan that was approved by the voters of CA, in 2008. Any track/mileage expansions to the 'original' design are not included in this cost overage.

You are only against him because of emotion, you still have not provided any fact of said destruction. These are only talking points and typing "koch" proves it.

Although that check they send me every month is nice, just built a two car garage and had a hot tub delivered. You can come over if you like.

@Craig I am not sure what the rules are about this BUT if your daughter is indeed getting unsolicitied e-mails like this on here wisc.edu account, I would contact the Republican Party of Waukesha County at 262-542-8532 and let them know.

The Anti-Alinsky, see my post to Sam Vedder above. Sigh. How nice it would be if the right-wing spin could be excised from the discourse.

Bren, wait - we do not have left wing spin? Try that again, we do not have ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN?

Thank you. I will pass the info on to her.

She needs to check if she signed up to be on certain lists also.

Yes, make sure of your facts before you tattle.

At least he carries a communist gun, true to his allegiance. Death threats from the left are just a result of success by Walker. We are finally pinning them back in the corner where they can do the least damage to human kind.

@Pale Rider...What in the hell is wrong with you? You are not helping with the cause by stooping to this level. Threats of violence are never acceptable whether from the left or the right. Clean it up or stay off the site.

wow! A liberal who believes in the right to bear arms. I never thought I'd see the day. You are claiming Republicans are cowards because they are not getting into an shoot out with you? Why an AK47? Yet another liberal buying foreign made products then complaining about the lack of jobs here. Please post your address so we can send the cops to talk to you about your threats on this web site.

Thanks Pale Rider... I thought the day would never come when I would agree with Lyle. I wonder if they have shovels in hell?

Hey Pale Rider, you wouldn't happen to be one of those phony Democratic recall candidates, would you? Or the guy who filed the recall papers to give Walker more time to fundraise? Or an AFP-funded agitator? I'm just remembering Walker's conversation with the fake David Koch about planting agitators - "we thought about it." Hm.

Is 'Pale Rider' posing as a liberal ? Didn't the right invent a stereotype liberal... one that certainly wouldn't sport an AK47 ? Is Pale Rider a conservative in sheep's clothing here ? Smells like a rat. At any rate, Pale Rider's post has been flagged as inappropriate due to the veiled death threat. Why is it still posted?

Governor Walker will win.......again. Then because this state has a balanced budget without the gimmicks, he will win a second term. Doesn't matter how many signatures are turned in for we don't want to go back to deficits, overspending and massive layoffs.

$3.6 billion deficit erased, budget balanced, funds Doyle stole from repaid, massive statewide layoffs averted, all without raising taxes. And all it took was for some whiner crybabies to contribute like the rest of us to their own benefits.
THANK YOU GOVERNOR WALKER, for your bold leadership.

Koch: We’ll back you any way we can. What we were thinking about the crowd was, uh, was planting some troublemakers.
Walker: You know, well, the only problem with that —because we thought about that. The problem—the, my only gut reaction to that is right now the lawmakers I’ve talked to have just completely had it with them, the public is not really fond of this
Walker:I went on “Morning Joe” this morning. I like it because I just like being combative with those guys, but, uh. You know they’re off the deep end.
Koch: Joe—Joe’s a good guy. He’s one of us.
Walker: Yeah, he’s all right. He was fair to me
Koch: Beautiful; beautiful. You gotta love that Mika Brzezinski; she’s a real piece of a$$.
Walker: Oh yeah.

Walker: An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it… the reason for that, we’re verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it’s turned out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I’ll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I’m used to that. I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.

Hey Keith, once again. Taking away state employee's union negotiating rights did not impact the deficit. The state employee pensions fund has "0" liability. The financial concessions made by state employees did not impact the deficit, they "paid" for the previously unfunded massive corporate tax breaks that Walker will be handing out.

Also, the Walker 2011-2013 budget calls for 21,000+ state employees to leave the payroll.

Hey Vicki, I think it's reasonable to ask the government workers to pay 50% of their pension contribution and 12% of their healthcare premium don't you?

@Vicki Bennet--Gov. Walker doesn't hate anybody. And not only that, but he is continually working to meet all his campaign promises of which he has accomplished most in only his first year. Once Obama is removed with his economic uncertainty, jobs will skyrocket as well. Two-terms minimum for the best governor this state has seen in decades, for he did not kick the can down the road, but tackled the problems head on.

Where are you getting your unemployment information from Vicki?

Wisconsin still has a lower unemployment rate than most of the states (7.3%), and is lower than the national unemployment rate of 8.6%.

@Vicki Bennett.... As of November, the last fully reported state by state unemployment ranking Wisconsin places #20. Approximately 1/3 of the states ranking better than Wisconsin are large western states with small populations. Most of those are experiencing a mini energy/employment boom due to shale oil and the fracking process. http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

@Keith Best...You must be living in a fantasy if you think a change in administration in D.C. is going to change the employment picture, that's just wishful thinking. You've been doing your scripted talking points for so long that you have lost touch with reality.

As far as reinstating collective bargaining, it will come back if it's the electorates will. This time, we'll make sure that you can't put your grubby hands on it again. Next time it will be done through a constitutional amendment.

Another thing you and your right threaded wingnuts have to look forward to is a move to recall Justice Gableman, he has been a disgrace to the bench and we don't need him mucking up the courts with his unethical/criminal behavior.

Keep lying to yourself and that inner emotion will keep the blinders fastened. lol patch is owned by the liberal rag Huffington post.

So should we have judged president Obama's job record after only 1 year? Both Walker and Obama inherited messes. The left wants to give Obama's policies time to see if they work - but one year is enough for you to prove that Walker's policies are not working? Hmmmmm. I was a teacher. I most definitely do not hate teachers. I respect teachers. However, I do not like the teacher's union and having union dues funneled directly into the democrat coffers. And how exactly is Wisconsin a dictatorship? You are mad because Republicans control everything, and three years ago Democrats controlled everything. Not happy? Vote the bums out at the next election cycle, but stop the stupid recalls. It is really making you guys look like poor losers.

wtf does who owns it have anything to do with who blogs on it?

Vickie Bennett...You are absolutely right. I'm with you. Most bloggers hear/see only what they want to. If someone presented them with the ten commandments, they'd only hear the "thou shalt not" and totally miss the points about WHAT they should not do because they resented the fact that someone should dare to tell THEM what they can or cannot do. We live in scary times. A poorly educated populace is just what conservatives want. People are easier to control with money since they are financially desperate, and they don't think enough about values and logical outcomes of selected actions. Throw in the outright lies we are fed constantly by political "spin doctors", and you get chaos. Just what we need, eh? These blogs merely give us the illusion of democracy. We never really have any power (except if we can come up with a lot of money to fight back with).

Lyle@ While you may have your own opinions, calling our Governor "Scooter" only makes you look childish and uneducated. His name is Scott Walker. If you disagree with him vote him out in three years!

You ever buy a health insurance policy on your own Lyle?

Lyle also calls conservatives right "wing nuts," and antagonizes and mocks those who select a presidential candidate not to his liking, which also detracts from his self-proclaimed "intelligentsia" based reasoning of winning over the opposition.

@Ben Hogan...I don't think we'll have to wait for three years! In or out, it will settled this year.

@Steve...You bet I've bought health insurance on my own and for the companies that I owned. That's one of the key reasons why I gave up starting any new companies, providing healthcare is an impediment to creating companies and hiring employees.

@patchreader 123...I don't discriminate. There are "right wingnuts and left wingnuts". As far as challenging someone on their presidential support, it you go public with your views and opinions, expect the comments.

So the collective bargaining bill was passed in 1957 and not the 60's - you proved my point. This is NOT a constitutional right and NOT in the Wisconsin State Constitution! Just because you call it a right does not make it one. It is a law and can be changed or removed by legislation. And under the Carter administration, collective bargaining was removed for federal employees, while still retaining all civil service protections. This is what Wisconsin employees still have and it is still better than what most workers have. You are right in that what is currently in the pension fund belongs to the employees - but have you ever looked at the growing percentage of school budgets that goes to funding those pension benefits and health care benefits at the expense of the kids? And some of the negotiated collective bargaining agreements - especially at MPS - are so over the top outrageous that it really tarnishes the union perception. I really don't think there is the groundswell of anger from non public employees that you seem to think, otherwise there would be way over 1 million signatures. If they just make the threshold to force a recall (after all the duplicates are thrown out) the electorate will indeed have their say. I think waiting 4 years for the normal election cycle is the way it should be - like we did when Jim Doyle was governor. I am telling you, people are starting to get real sick of all of these recalls and see this as poor loserville...

That goes both ways Lyle...

@Lisann....A little education for you. There are two types of rights; inalienable and statutory. Inalienable rights are those extended to all humans by the "creator". Whereas, alienable or statutory are rights gained through social contracts. Even the rights guaranteed in the federal and state constitution are alienable rights. So are the statutory rights passed through the legislative process.

What you fail to realize is that the majority of guidelines, workplace rules, etc. were contained within the collective bargaining agreements and not the civil service regulations as they are with the federal government. Every public entity that retired their collective bargaining agreements have had to go back and create Policies and Procedures Manuals, including workplace rules.

Please don't consider all public employee unions with the teacher's union. To basically different animals. State employees have always been much more limited than the teacher unions. State employees have never held a work action; whereas, the teachers have. Also, state public unions did not automatically use union dues to fund political candidates. They set up PACs that the employees contribute to.

"Scooter" has always been a nickname for Scott. My friends named Scott aren't offended by it; so what's your point?

@Lisann--- you as many others spew what you don't know. Federal Employees DO have Collective Bargaining rights: http://www.afge.org/Index.cfm?Page=PressReleases&PressReleaseID=1267#
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:
March 28, 2011
AFGE, VA SIGN NEW COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT

Still didn't answer my question Vicki. Don't you think it's reasonable to ask the government employees to contriburte 50% towards their pension? And itsn't it reasonable to ask these same government employees to contribute 12% of their healthcare premiums? I think these proposals are very reasonable. Thanks Governor Walker.

Don't confuse Vicki with all kinds of facts and numbers. It throws off her emotional response.

Hudson, I'll take your question. If you accept a job at $X salary and $Y benefits, should you be attacked for not contributing enough toward your benefits? No, that's ridiculous. The egregious issues concerning the government employees' salaries and benefits are these:

1. The financial concessions were never intended to address the state budget shortfall, but to finance Walker's unfunded corporate tax cuts. The savings to the state should have addressed the shortfall, and the corporate tax cuts cancelled or deferred to the time our state could actually afford them.

2. The public attacks on state workers. This vicious, systematic offense was clearly designed to draw attention from the true facts of the matter (see #1 above). Some people are angry at the Wisconsin 14, but I hold that they did a good thing in slowing down the legislative process on the so-called "budget repair" bill so that everyone could fully understand what was intended. Well thought out, forthright legislation would have stood up to public scrutiny. Why the rush? (Bills typically take months to finalize.) Remember what eventually happened-Republicans gave up the lie, pulled the bargaining portion out of the "budget repair" bill and rammed it through the legislature. All this to help rich people.

Were state employees unwilling to make concessions? No, they did. But the funds should have helped close the shortfall, not provide corporate welfare.

The Anti, I don't agree that the MPS board was being irresponsible, quite the reverse. Texas is the exemplar for what happens when teacher wages are disparate-the teachers go where they will be decently paid and that translates to more affluent school districts. Why shouldn't everyone follow the example of Wall Street? Why do right-wing people think one person with a Master's Degree should be expected to work for $45,000/year with benefits in a job that includes physical risk, but defend the Wall Street CEO that makes millions while outsourcing American jobs? The Wall Street CEO's economic impact is much higher. If only you would defend the teachers of America's children so staunchly.

And remember that the union's financial concessions that were made this spring were only to finance the upcoming corporate tax breaks. They did nothing to alleviate the projected shortfall. Nothing. Welfare for rich people is not fiscally conservative.

"They knew he was a fiscal conservative..." No one who has sat in one one of Scott's budget hearings (like me) would say that. He's a fiscal radical. I honestly don't think he understands contracts and budgets, which is why he should have finished school. (Remember the Blue Shirt contract that cost the County $$$, illegal firings that cost the County a fortune, etc., etc., etc.). I didn't vote for him because I knew his fuzzy math and legal skills would throw the state into chaos and I was absolutely right.

You leave out a key element like Scooter so loves to do. It's not "most federal employees don't have collective bargaining rights" it's most don't have collective bargainging rights over "pay" but they do still have collective bargaining rights. The issue isn't about "limiting" collective bargaining rights it's about "eliminating" them. He has no idea what compromise is otherwise he wouldn't be facing recall.People can't stomach his "all or nothing" atitude. His fake koch phone call showed his true colors.

I guess this is the debate - it comes down to whether or not you think public employees should be able to collectively bargain at all. FDR did not think so. He was pro union, but not in favor of collective bargaining for government employees. See the FDR letter:
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=15445#axzz1icLZ6d7X

It wasn't until 1959 in Wisconsin that all of this changed and we are where we are now...

Whatever you think the "debate" is it comes down to spreading lies or omitting key facts to try to argue your point. Get your facts straight before proclaiming something that is not true. Like so many others who argue about collective bargaining rights; why should so & so have them when the federal gov't doesn't; knowing full well the feds DO have them. Maybe all don't have them for wages but they still have them.

For me, the recall is not wholly about collective bargaining rights, it is about a Governor who places the interests of his corporate sponsors above those of his constituents to a degree that is causing havoc and polarization in our state. The outrageous attacks against public workers, the budget clause allowing Scott Walker to sell or lease power plants at prices he sets, etc., all demonstrate that this man doesn't respect his office or his constituents, and his willingness to enrich his benefactors at our expense.

The Anti, as a taxpayer (and future Social Security recipient), I want to provide the best possible education to children so that they can contribute significantly to our society and economy. Saving a few dollars by diminishing a child's education is piggy and shortsighted almost beyond my comprehension.

Concerning Texas, I stand by my words and research. Apparently your friends will have sufficient income to live near good schools and I am happy for them and their children. Would that every child in the world had equal access to an excellent education.

Concerning the $45K take-home I'm going by what I know from actual teachers (actual vs. average). $35K is probably closer to what an entry-level teacher makes, which is not much considering education level, current cost of living expenses, student loan payments, etc.

But looking at your figures, it reminds me that teachers are wonderful and dedicated people. With their advanced education, most could probably make a lot more in the private sector. Thanks for sharing!

Please keep in mind these teacher's salary figures are for 3/4 of a year. Teachers do not work 12 months. $35,000 would be close to $47,000 starting salary plus benefits - which is very good starting money. Average salary - whether it is $45,000 or $55,000 - that would extrapolate out to $60,000 and around $73,000 plus benefits - which again is not a bad salary.

Lisann,
I am sorry, but your math does not account for hours. Someone will obviously contest what I have to say, but the hours aren't 8 or less per day. We can argue on what you call work, but paperwork for a job is a job. Planning, meetings with businesses, curriculum writing, etc are all part of the job that you cant do when you have kids in the classroom, and it isnt something that you can finish in 1.5 hrs during the day. sorry, the hours equal 2000/yr.

Lisann, Say What? is correct. Teachers meet with students, grade papers, coach clubs, etc. With cuts to cultural and phy ed programs, the number of extracurricular hours isn't likely to decrease. That 9 month contract leaves 3 unpaid months as I understand. Quite a few teachers sign up to teach summer school or take part time jobs to fill the gap.

Maybe it's the endless complaining and complete blind spot a good number of them seem to have regarding what those in other segments of the economy have been going through for years now, Dave. That's what it is for me.

I don't hate them. I understand their jobs aren't a cakewalk - I don't know too many folks these day who have jobs that would be described much differently. I'm just really, really sick of the self-pity, the imaginary martyrdom, the demands for appreciation and the unrealistic expectations that come, I feel, from the complete lack of understanding of what goes on outside their sheltered little circle.

That's not a great recipe for attempting to win support from those who don't automatically view those in the education field as demigods. Feel free to keep running with it, but then don't be so puzzled by the number of folks that you feel are so down on teachers. Those not automatically disposed to viewing those in the education field as demigods, like myself, have a real hard time reconciling the amount of complaining with the facts regarding what's being complained about.

Bob,
1. a lot of people complain about their jobs.
2. If someone says you are overpaid, and you defend why you get paid what you do, that isn't complaining.

Say What?

People who constantly complain about their jobs (and I'd argue that they don't complain about them publicly anywhere near to the degree teachers and certain other public employees do) are inevitably met with the response "so why don't you go find another one"? Rarely do they get much sympathy, rarely does continual complaining result in an improvement in compensation and after awhile it just becomes so much noise coming from a malcontent.

Um, I am a teacher, eat in the staff lunch room, and I dont here people complaining about their jobs anywhere near the extent that you seem to think is publicly projected. Once again, when you accuse/attack/whatever you want to call what you are doing now, and people defend themselves, it isn't complaining. What I am noticing is a lot of complaining from you, maybe you should find another hobby other than the Patch?!

Say What,
I don't really like people that attack people's spelling and grammar, on this type of site, but since you are a teacher i'll make an exception.
Hear vs. here. Sorry.

Whether you choose to accept it or not, the actions taken and statements made by many teachers relating to the concessions they've been asked to make have been very public, very pointed and in most cases have demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what's been going in this economy and how it has effected many of those who've been witness to both. Unfortunately, your ability to control how those messages are interpreted by those who receive them is essentially nonexistent. If you choose to believe that it isn't interpreted as a bunch of perennial malcontents who don't know how good they actually have it in relation to what others have gone through, you're free to do so, obviously.

Yeah, sorry Grog, I must have been typing quickly and not thinking of my grammar. Sometimes I do that when I am multitasking. I am sure that I will get over it, I hope you can to. Now on to other business with Babe McBride...

Bob,
It isn't so much of a problem with how people interpret it, it is there news sources. The collective bargaining law was something that teachers were willing to fight while almost every single one, despite the loss of money on the check, was willing to concede the retirement and healthcare. Fox and "friends" did a very good job at changing the dialogue, making sure that their followers only heard what would piss them off. I will admit that I should be changing the dialogue to collective bargaining whenever you bring up pay, benefits, the hours we work, etc to counteract that dialogue shift. Greg is doing something similar here, or hear, as whatever it was supposed to be in my previous post that he wished to pick on. It is about changing the dialogue to something that he feels he can win, or knows he can. He won, but it is a shallow victory that I dont care about. As for the wages, benefits, etc, I am willing to fight and tell you why we do what we do and why we are worth the money. People change the dialogue in an argument, looking for a victory. Have you found that in saying teachers complain all the time or whatever its about? I guess it depends on how people receive that argument, right?!

Oops Grog, that was supposed to be "too". Shoot, more ammo for your arsenal.

Say What, you can attempt to change the dialogue all you want but the fact remains that eventually it always comes back around to compensation and a victim mentality that's exhibited on a regular basis. You have your work cut out for you attempting to argue that it's about the effects changes to collective bargaining have on the quality of education when you have teachers in the City of Milwaukee refusing to go along with a recommendation by the administration that would have resulted in a minor adjustment in compensation in order to save approximately 200 teacher jobs. That's not made up. That really happened. Is it used against the opponents of your side? Sure, just as are some of the foibles of Scott Walker by your side. But it's still real. As are the readily available compensation figures for teachers that have been brought into focus. Which, frankly, don't hold up to the argument that teachers are already underpaid when compared to the sacrifices many of us in the private sector have made over the past few years.

You can deny the perception and pass it off as propaganda if you like and minimize its impact if it makes you feel better to do so. I'm telling you what it looks like from where I sit and that there are others who think the same way as I do and, in my estimation, the numbers of those others are not small. The die is pretty much cast in that regard.

Fair warning, I guess.

You wondered why people are so down on teachers. I've given you a reason. It's one I've heard repeated often enough that I know it's not unique. Your response was that it doesn't matter what people think. If it doesn't matter, then there's really no reason for you to wonder about it - is there?

I've known many folks who thought they were indispensable and adopted an attitude like the one you and a number of educators have. A whole lot of them were put out of work when the folks who called the shots just got sick of the constant complaining and the arrogant defiance, took the time to test the degree to which those who felt were indispensable actually were, and ultimately found out they weren't.

If you think that can't happen in the education field, you've just proved exactly how out of touch you and those who agree with you actually are. One would have to be completely oblivious to the kinds of technological changes that have radically changed other professions to think that way. That belief alone brings into question the degree to which someone who holds it is capable of imparting a quality education.

Another aspect of the teaching profession is the capacity to take a punch, counsel students and perform riot duty. A young relative who attended MPS shares stories about a teacher getting struck in the head with a telephone receiver by a student who didn't want her to report his behavior; a teacher being knocked down the stairs and suffering a head injury by running students; a teacher getting punched into a locker by a much larger student; teachers having to break up a cafeteria riot and the stampede that started after one student threw another through a glass wall; evacuating students to a safer corner of the school when gunfire erupted from the crack house across the street; having to counsel students when a popular 14 year old committed suicide; when one student sexually assaulted a special needs student in the locker room, etc., etc., etc. These weren't isolated incidents; something happened nearly every day. An acquaintance who used to teach at a MPS middle school reported very similar stories and more.

And then there are the stories of finding a first grader walking to school in freezing weather in a t-shirt. Or finding kids not signed up for the federal breakfast/lunch program because of a language barrier and learning they haven't had anything to eat for a day or two. Having drunk parents show up at school. Etc. etc. etc.

Personally, I can't imagine anyone being so piggy as to begrudge a decent wage to anyone who has to deal with this level of job stress.

http://www.fox6now.com/news/politics/witi-20110131-walker-tax-bill,0,6398564.story

Those.

From the first line of the article:

"Companies that relocate to Wisconsin won't have to pay income taxes for two years under a bill signed into law Monday by Gov. Scott Walker."

It sounds like they are giving a two year tax holiday to companies that come into Wisconsin. The plan sounds pretty good to me--if the businesses don't come to Wisconsin, we wouldn't be collecting those taxes anyhow. I guess you'd prefer if companies had no incentive to create jobs in Wisconsin?

Teachers unions will be for the children when the children pay union dues.

Lisann...Ironically, it is not the teachers who decide to get rid of music or art etc. It is the school board and administrators, not union people. Teachers generally do what they are told to do by the elected school boards. If you don't like your schools, don't blame teachers. Blame the elected policy makers.

I don't think Lisann was blaming the teachers, Dave. It sounded to me that the blame was being placed on the unions for failing to compromise or make concessions when budgets are tight.

If there is a shortfall of money to fund the schools, and the unions refuse to make concessions on teacher compensation packages, or allow the school administratio to shop around for a cheaper health insurance provider, programs like art and music end up on the chopping block...

well said Lisann. the biggest portion of your tax bill has always been school district tax. If the teachers and the unions who did over $300,000 dollars damage at the capitol were to step up and pay for the damage they did and we the tax payer weren,t on the hook for it that would help to lessen the bitter feelings against the unions and the damage they did. But I also remind you of how they called in sick{which was a lie} and marched around the capitol and then got phoney doctor excuses to cover their absence. Yep tell me all about the goody unions and if they were so great they'd be telling the Goverment Accountability Board{ we don't want any part of Mickey mouse. Donald Duck, Adolph Hitler or any other phoney signatures counted, but then I guess it's all about winning lie, cheat or whatever it takes. A win is a win in their eyes.

I think maybe you should change your name to morninlink instead.

Red would be a much better color for them.

http://verifytherecall.com/

It would be more convenient if you signed it for me or Adolf Hitler. Put us both down as
123 Union St.
Mickey Mouse, WI
Oh, you probably already did that.

On behalf of John Smith, my cousin John Smith, my mother John Smith, and my twin cats, John and John Smith, we thank you for bring this to our attention so we can sign this valuable document.

I love that! Drive up government union thuggery at its best! Kind of like a communist version of McDonalds.....

Paul,
Your comments are Moronic, at best.
Local control is REAL democracy.
Feedding WI to his corporate friends? No, but you liked when it was a union controlled state?
Your budget numbers are totally incorrect and what is an EFM?

Over 800 million went to corporations as tax breaks and credits to promote job creation. It would appear they either decided to take the money and do nothing or they decided to take the money and move out.

Perhaps you can expand a bit on your claims about the $800 million in corporate tax breaks--that's a claim that I have not heard before...

So saith Nick 'the Marketing Maven' Poulos...

OMG, another barf bag please....

Thursty,
Don't jump all over Steve because of his beliefs in the intent of the recall. While Steve doesn't believe in the use of the recall at all, I believe the intent was only to recall corrupt and unethical elected officials.

@Vicki B: your suggestions makes a great deal of sense. Apparently the patch.com editors choose only right wing areas in which to focus their sites. Clearly this town wants to shout down the truth. Walker will be recalled. Obama will be re-elected. other than that: nothing more to say. Bye

I just took kind of a quick count here on the lefty versus righty posts and if we removed the lefty posts the number of total posts would be approximately half of what it is now. That's pretty plain to see, even when taking a cursory scan of the thread. All one is able to draw from Vicky's comments and Nick's seconding of the motion is that unless they're assured that there's a majority of posters who post in agreement with their personal POVs, they're unhappy campers.

If you two wish to seek refuge at a forum where your viewpoint is represented in an overwhelming majority and where opposing viewpoints, if tolerated, are ridiculed in a fashion I'm sure you'd appreciate, I'll be happy to point you in the direction of a few. If you two choose to leave this one, I trust there will be plenty left to stay in your stead.

The balance is even here, it always has been and if you're frustrated because you don't think your brilliant arguments are swaying people over to your way of thinking, perhaps you need to reevaluate not only your strategy but your understanding of the purpose of forums such as this one.

Patch is one of the fairest forums around. It features an amazingly equal representation of both sides. Moderation is a limited and as fair as you'll find it, particularly as an AOL entity The fact that the outriders on each side think it's biased one way or the other just proves that point.

Really, the Patch staff does nothing to balance out the commentators one way or another. For that matter, if someone wishes to submit a blog, they can do it regardless of their stripe.

I do think though, that from time to time, paid posters show up like that pro gun numbskull a few months back.

Why, I think I may have summoned him right now.

As Bob represents the conservative views here (Not radically idiotic), it is nice to here Bob say that the Patch forum is rather even. I some times get frustrated, but I know that if I take a break from the patch that there are other people here to stand up for my views. I am sure Bob could go on vacation and someone would state some congruent view in his place.

A few days and Wanggaard will be recalled. Tune in tonight for a discussion.

rappinamyB Amy
Van Wangaard recall effort going strong. Tonight I talk w/ #wirecall organizer about why this could be the race to flip the Senate. #wiunion
1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply

How do you know that there are 'far more than enough signatures to recall'? They have not released the actual, validated signature count...

You were stuck on that island for far too long (how is Lovie?). No tricks will be needed. Once all the duplicate, false, dead people, out of state'rs and made-up names are removed from the list, we can begin the criminal investigations into ALL the illegal activity surrounding this failed recall effort.

Thirsty has had a few too many coconuts hit him on the head. Here is a good expaination of why we needed the BRB and how it is working.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_7rFHXBC9c&feature=share

Sam V is in the denial stage (Stages of Grief and Loss)

Tell you what funny guys, I'll bet you a boat load of virtual gold bullion there are more than enough signatures! It's no secret. The Wisconsin Democratic Party Chairman announced this on the radio a couple days ago.

If you'd unglue your radio dial from Rush Limbaugh, maybe you'd actually become informed about current events!
http://wpr.org/news/display_headline_story.cfm?storyid=27812&search_text=Mike%20Tate
While it was reported as a win for the Walker campaign, State Democratic Party Chair
Mike Tate
said the ruling changes very little. Democrats, he says, will meet their recall signature goals, "The number we hand in will be so overwhelming that it will remove any doubt about if we're going to have an election. It will simply be a matter of when and how much of the public's time Scott Walker wants to waste by attempting to delay this election."

Thurston:

Why do you think it is so unreasonable for Walker to take the necessary steps to have the GAB verify that all the signatures on the recall petitions be valid and non-duplicate?

"A boat load of virtual gold bullion". Do you store that in the cave on the other side of the island and have Gilligan stand guard?
I'm sure there are more than enough signatures, the question is how many of them are legal? Those will be two VERY different numbers.

You people, when it comes to history you know absolute crap -- http://tinyurl.com/76wyr8j.

You don't think there isn't corruption in the Walker administration? Man, you're easy.

Thew only reasons why the GOP "kicked butt" in 2010 was because the voters weren't paying attention. They are now paying attention, and ready to kick another set of butts.

You probably believe in praying. Start now.

You got a lot of nerve, Keith, talking about corruption after Jim Doyle's embarrassing run as Governor.

Amazing some people can be resentful of people getting a little bit of money but admiring of people getting a crap load of money, and it is amazing that some people don't know how to use the RETURN key.

If you want people to really read your irrational rants, do yourself a favor and consider paragraphs man.

Amazing how the raging right keeps blaming people who had nothing to do with our problems They don't seek solutions, only salve.

Yes Dude--Keith knows how to properly format his irrational rants, you should follow his example...

Keith:

Do you really think this is an issue of resentment? It's about everyone paying their fair share. People in the private sector are taking pay cuts, paying more for their benefits, etc. Why can't those in the public sector help the rest of us out and start doing the same?

wow, a story about nothing.

Post the one where liberals cost the state millions in recall elections.
#walkerisyourkriptonite

;) hope that helps...
http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/gab-cost-of-statewide-recall-election-could-cost-9-million
http://caledonia.patch.com/articles/robin-vos-calls-for-recall-election-change-cory-mason-disagrees

Thanks Denise, those are the ones!