"How's about actually reading the article, ingesting/analyzing the information, and writing a thoughtful comment that reflects your understanding and take on the situation"

Nope, Bren spews the same old crap. ALEC, ALEC, ALEC....Hypocrite.

Ha!

Greg effectively blasted Bren with her own advice - Hoffa loves it!

Greg, I wouldn't respond the way I did if I hadn't done so. You of course, have done what you always do and riff off the work of others instead of creating your own. How boring.

If you don't agree with me, why not? Defend your "shining star."

The key to getting Mr. Hoffa to focus and read an entire comment is to keep it to three lines of text. ; )

Actually Bren, it's only liberals who derive their values from politics and believe the state can be their God.

Didn't a majority of Wisconsin voters just approve limited government, free markets and increasing individual liberty? This was a clear rejection of the Bren/Soros agenda of increasing dependence, equal sharing of misery and great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else.

Bren, I will use your comment above to set the bar for my future comments. Thank you, I'm going to have a great time commenting on Baldwin. I may not achieve the level of disdain, that you show for Governor Walker, but I will try.

Bren apparently doesn't understand the irony in that it was her and her fellow blue fisters that effectively turned Walker into one of the "bright, shining stars with big ideas in this country."

For that Bren, Hoffa thanks you for your support of Governor (and maybe someday President) Walker!

@Adam Wienieski...Where are you getting your data for claiming that liberals get their values from politics and the government is G-d? It really is an absurd statement.

Governor Walker's presence at the Republican National Convention indicates how far to the political right the GOP has moved. I'm not so sure that the American public is ready to buy the extremism of the TEA Party/GOP.

Lyle, Governor Walker's presence does all that? One speaker shifts the entire party? I think not.

Using Lyle's logic, the presence of Democratic Senator Zell Miller at the Republican convention a few years ago would be an indication of how far to the political left the democratic party had moved...

Adam, research is indicating that it is the so-called conservative brain (left-brain dominant) that seeks clear-cut instruction, absolute definition, and strong authority figures. Interesting. I believe a majority of Wisconsinites 'believe' that they have voted for limited government, etc.; I believe what their ignorance/laziness has given all us is the prelude to the precise opposite.

Greg, another "riff" comment. If you're holding back because all of your intellect is being directed toward building your case against Tammy Baldwin I will step back and let that fine brain of yours percolate. In the meantime I'll find strong rope and a sturdy pillar to cling to in hopes of saving myself from the tsunami of persuasive argument and acerbic wit which will engulf us when at last you launch your case (hopefully in time for this election cycle). Preparing to be impressed.

Mr. Hoffa, it was a happy day for Scott Walker when he joined ALEC. They have crafted his entire dialogue and work plan since before he was elected governor. It is that group which deserves all the credit for turning a real live boy into a puppet.

@Lyle -

And uber-lefty and Daily Kos darling Elizabeth Warren will be speaking at the Democratic convention, not to mention their convention's keynote speaker, President Barack Obama, a man who has twice garnered the endorsement of the Communist Party USA - what does that say about where the Democratic Party has gone in the last 10 years exactly?

http://www.cpusa.org/

The only reason that it appears as if the Republicans are moving far to the right is because 1) the Democrats have moved away from center and towards the far left; and 2) both the Republicans and the Democrats have been constantly moving the center further left over the last 3.5 decades.

The Tea Party is merely causing the Republicans to take a corrective course in moving the center back towards a true center. As a social Democrat though, you'd prefer us to ignore how the center has moved left over the last 35 years. Sorry, but the days of fooling people are over!

Lyle - Government is your God because it provides your only means of living and you are constantly worshiping it. You spend your time trying to convert others to worship government with you.

@Richard Head....You're making absolutely no sense with your claims about government being G-d. There is no logical connection between government and G-d. I spent the largest majority of my adult working life in the private sector creating products and services.

@JRH....I really don't care who the Communist Party endorses. I seriously challenge your claim that the middle has moved to the left over the last 3.5 decades. Having lived through the entire period as an adult, I maintain that we have moved definitely to the right of center and moving ever further to the right.

Right of center extremism as well as libertarianism has become highly fashionable, especially for the Gen-Xers who gained political awareness under Ronald Reagan.

@Lyle -

You take issue with the Republican Party embracing a guy as supposedly far/extreme right as Governor Walker, but have no problem with the Democrats embracing a man who has twice garnered the endorsement of the Communist Party USA, which you don't see as being indicative of how far left the Democrats have moved over the last decade.

Are you honestly that closed minded that you don't see the partisan biased hypocrisy in such a statement as that?!?!

Come on Lyle!!!

Since Nixon, the center has been moving left - the size and spending of the federal government has only been increasing, even under Reagan. The only difference is that instead of taxing for these increases in government, we've been putting them on the credit card. We need to move the center back towards true balance. As a social Democrat, you like the bigger government so you'd prefer to do this by raising revenues. Conservatives, on the other hand, prefer smaller government and more personal responsibility, and accordingly prefer to do this by cutting the size and spending of the federal government.

You look at the issue from a taxation standpoint instead of a spending standpoint. But in doing so, you're ignoring or writing off the importance of the borrowed money we've spent. You wouldn't do this with your personal finances, so why approach government in such a fashion? That's what has gotten the Euro-zone into the mess they now find themselves in.

Lyle, maybe this will help you with Richard's message.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b24YF3DPiWM&feature=related
Good stuff starts at 1:14

I wonder if that's Bren in front of the mic.

Apparently that moonbeam your under has forgotten that he took on the unions and won; twice!!! That is not the ALEC agenda, that is the Reagan agenda.

I know, I know, all you guys got is Obama and he's not much to write home about.

Anti, most definitely not! ; )

@Anti -

Dude, that was totally Bren ;-)

@Bren -

You have to admit - that was pretty good!

It was funny. But it wasn't me! ; )

A national balanced budget and elimination of the national deficit would be great.

The ideas may be bold but they're certainly not Scott Walker's. But I'll accept the quote as written with the understanding that the word "bold" is defined as "ruinous."

The idea of taking the ALEC agenda fully national may well occur. But our shining light of liberty, which brings opportunity and hope for all will be diminished. We should be working to build the middle and working classes up. ALEC is about creating legislation that favors Big Business. If the entire income spectrum isn't advancing, it's a problem. We are already seeing companies like Best Buy falter; the mid-size giants will start to collapse and will be gobbled up by the biggest companies. In this way we could be moving closer to monopolization and the end of competitive markets. We could be left with a few mega-companies in every industry and the prices that they impose, for luxury items and necessities. That could be a potential global future.

Greg, a balanced budget wasn't a concern of the Bush administration (obviously). Getting the economy moving and people working should be the first priority; this provides the tax revenue that will help address debt. The GOP's sudden concern about the deficit should be recognized as the cynical, protect-the-wealthy strategy that it is.

That's why Wisconsin is now know as the " Hate State " !

Ducky: If your kind would just get over it and move on. there would be no hate. You lost- twice....rub some dirt on it and walk it off. I am tired of the same ole song- 'you bought the election'.
The truth is: There are those who whine and cry, and file for assistance. Then there are those who take matters into their own hands and earn a living---they can afford to buy an election!

he may have started it, but i do believe the first incitement of violence and rhetoric to that end came from the fisters, sorry Rando!

@juka29 -- Perhaps if he hadn't taken an adversarial position from the get go and talked about 'dividing and conquering' or 'dropping the bomb' things might have gone a little better.

'Rando'? Really?

you know, i actually KIND of agree that Walker made some buffoonish mis-steps, but e NEVER threatened any individuals nor did he threaten businesses with retribution for NOT towing his line. Also he didn't disrupt school for kids for two-three days and make a mockery of legitimate causes...

and i call my buddy Rando, sorry - I shouldn't have treated you with so much colloquial informality

@jukap29 -- I seem to recall Walker saying something about how he'd 'thought' about planting troublemakers in the crowds of demonstrators at the Capitol.

When you and I are buddies you can treat me with colloquial informality. Until then, there's a classic phrase: When you call me that, smile.

i ALSO recall that deceptive and barely legal falsified phone call too, it's what makes me AGREE that Walker isn't a very good leader or at the least not a smart one. but let's see, which came first - angry, disruptive protesters in Madison, Bullies forcing teachers to shut up if they didn't agree in the schools, the BRAINWASHING of the kids to make the decision seem one sided and heartless or your conjecture?

as for the friendliness, don't worry, i won't make the same mistake again, Bless your Heart for pointing that out...

Yes, jukap29, but what made the protesters angry in the first place? I think it had to do with some heavy-handedness in the state legislature and the Governor's office. Scott Walker is not a 'bold' leader. He's a klutz. He mucked up Milwaukee County (worse than it already was) he's going to muck up the state, and now the national GOP is embracing him like he's the next best thing since sliced bread.

As for the 'Rando' business, if you were being friendly, I apologize. I took it as being condescending.

@Rando -

Hoffa can call you Rando, right ;-)

Are you still crying about Walker? You didn't seem to mind when Doyle royally messed up the state's finances. Despite having received and spent one of the largest federal government stimulus payments in our nation's history, Doyle still managed to illegally raid segregated funds, run up a significant tab with the state of Minnesota, and issued loads of public debt, nearly tripling our debt burden, fully exclusive of the carry over from previous administrations! But all of that was OK, right?

Walker, despite facing unprecedented opposition since the day he was sworn in as Governor, paid back the illegally segregated funds pursuant to the outstanding Court order, paid off the tab with the State of Minnesota, and has thus far avoided any new original public debt offerings at the state level - all without raising state income, sales, or excise taxes and limiting the growth of municipal level property tax assessments. He also provided localities and school districts with tools to use to off-set cuts in state aid and control their budgets if the local level leadership chose to embrace and utilize those tools to their maximum potential.

And yet, you're still trying to claim that Walker has messed up the state's finances - that's simply incredible!

What more could the man have done in the amount of time he has had to do things - especially when considering the opposition he was constantly and consistently facing?

Yes, Hoffa may call Randy 'Rando' because Hoffa would never ever consider condescending to Randy 1949.

Look, JRH, the national economy is in a mess and has been for years, even before the 2008 nosedive. The most a Governor can do is either make it better than it might have been or he can make it worse. Yes, Doyle did make things hard on property owners, banking on that real estate bubble that let the state tell us we were 'rich' when our incomes said otherwise. So far, Walker's efforts have accomplished little, but with the long view of history (which I'm old enough to have) they will rebound to our detriment. California learned that lesson with Proposition 13.

I shouldn't really care if my school district goes to pot -- I have no school-age children, and my grandson lives in another district. That is, until my health aide can't even read the instructions on my care sheet. Already I see the decline in literacy.

@Randy1949 -

So you honestly think that throwing more money at the public schools will fix them? Every other major industrialized nation on the planet spends about 1/3 of the amount we do per child in the public education system and are achieving better results. Doesn't that alone conclusively prove that continuing to throw more money at education isn't the solution that's needed to fix it? So why do you continue to act like it is?

My school district seems to use the money it has so stupidly, that I don't advise throwing more money at them. But throwing less will probably not help matters. I don't quite understand how Waukesha's school levy has to be twice that of Elmbrook's.

So Bren, a national balanced budget and elimination of the national deficit would be bad? Please use your superior intellect and enlighten me.

Greg! I read a great old textbook written in the '30s titled "Social Disorganization." Work programs were very much intended to control social unrest. Roosevelt and his advisers understood that idle, hungry, angry, able-bodied people represented a very real potential threat to social order. "Hoovervilles" (the original Occupy camps) were springing up, foreclosed homes were being re-occupied, and the Communist party was gaining inroads among the disenfranchised.

It's hard to look at the long view when vision is obscured by dollar signs. Those who offshored millions of jobs never considered what would/could happen in an economic downturn. People on the hunt for bargains often don't think about how an item can be sold so cheaply. Everyone has a measure of responsibility in our current situation. But allowing the financial industry, GM, etc., to go under, adding millions more to the unemployment rolls would have been an even greater disaster. In the last 18 months there have been food riots (rice shortages) in several unstable countries. Here the Occupy movement sprung up. These are related to food and economic uncertainty.

Yes, a balanced budget is ideal; we were close in 2000 and it was good. But I definitely maintain that controlling offshoring, ensuring living wages are being paid, taking the onus of health insurance payments from employers, and getting people working again are the highest priorities. Balance must be restored.

Work programs are fine and I understand spending money to get people working. How do green jobs fit in? How do higher energy costs fit in? Focusing on environmental ideals can wait for prosperity. A balanced budget is ideal, but a budget alone would be nice. I won't even go into the occupy movement, they don't even know what they are about.

@Randy1949 -

So then, what's the solution to your local school district problem?

@Bren -

Clinton's balanced budget came on the back of a $1T raid on the SS fund. Not to mention that Clinton's NAFTA and trade deal with China are what really opened up the flood gates for outsourcing jobs. But you praise the man and his party anyway. Incredible if you ask Hoffa!

All of those Occupiers contributed to the problem by consuming goods that are made under exploitational conditions. Hoffa doesn't understand how someone who owns/drives a vehicle that was assembled in a right-to-work-for-less state can seriously lecture us about the evils of exploitational business practices, because that person is helping to create the demand that is driving the supply of the goods made under such conditions.

Demand is ALWAYS more powerful than supply.

If people started actually walking their talk, they'd fix the problems themselves without the need for government intervention. So Bren, what's so hard about actually walking your talk? Oh yeah, that's right - the car purchasing process is just too much of burden for you. Silly me, I should have realized that's it's too much to ask of Bren to spend a day at the dealership dealing with the sales hawks just so she can walk her own talk.

What good are principles if you don't exercise them when the opportunities arise?

Start walking your talk Bren!

Randy, we saw real heavy-handedness two years earlier when Diamond Jim Doyle and the Democrats, despite cutting state aid, eliminated the Qualified Economic Offer (QEO). Teacher's salaries/benefits were no longer effectively limited to a 3.8% increase.

This failure to even listen to taxpayers is what lost the Democrats the Governorship, the Assembly AND the Senate.

Greg, I think working to develop new industries makes sense short term because it's safe to suggest that Big Business is not Obama's friend. I also believe the best method to control unstable oil-producing countries is to stop making them feel so special. They have us over a barrel so to speak. It makes sense to access domestic sources and investigate new technologies as we have been doing in the last few years.

Will you agree that the Tea/GOP filibustering and obstructionism could be contributory factors in not getting a budget passed? Balking at raising the debt ceiling when traditional Republicans had voted to do so 7 times during the Bush administration made no sense and damaged our credibility. Gamesmanship, always a priority, now has become the sole concern of Congress, and results show what happens when important issues are neglected.

Concerning Occupy, I investigated because of social concerns. It was successful in scooping up the disenfranchised. In large cities the movement demonstrated disconcerting effectiveness in marshalling thousands more friends at need (to protect camps, etc.). Similarly the recall effort marshalled a significant amount of support. These actions and numbers suggest that there is a groundswell of discontent growing and festering. Worldwide. That's why I think focusing on job/industry growth is the priority now, not gutting social programs or pushing "pill between the knees" legislature in the name of budget management.

@Bren -

"I think working to develop new industries makes sense short term because it's safe to suggest that Big Business is not Obama's friend."

So it's about what's in Obama's best interest, not necessarily the country as a whole - I see. That clears up a lot of mystery surrounding your policy positions!

"Will you agree that the Tea/GOP filibustering and obstructionism could be contributory factors in not getting a budget passed?"

Obama's proposed budget didn't even receive a single Democratic vote, and yet you're blaming the lack of a federal budget on the Tea/GOP?!?!

COME ON!!!

How many proposed budgets have come out of the House thus far? And how many budgets have the Democrats proposed wherein they at least have a consensus within their own party?

Your denial of facts and reality is just obscene sometimes!

Not to mention that for the first two years of his presidency, he had a filibuster-proof majority, but again, nice way to mis-read history once again Bren.

Mr. Hoffa, I believe that Clinton was a wonderful friend to Big Business. I agree that NAFTA was a Pandora's box. Clinton could garner bipartisan support, but hindsight shows us that the price was very high. It was too much to expect that globalization could have been achieved in a way that lifted everyone up instead of dumping 98% of the world's resources into a few dozen laps. The volte-face that took place in 2000 in the form of tax cuts for the highest incomes and two unfunded wars exacerbated the problem with near-disastrous results. Without those events, what would the world look like today?

If you want to tease me about my car, I have something to tease you about as well. ; ) And who buys a car in one day? The last time I purchased a car the process took months! I had to visit the auto show, speak with many representatives, read through lbs. of literature, pore over Consumer's Digest, spend hours online reading driver reviews, and then the process of renting cars and visiting showrooms. Calculating the fair rates and knowing I was going to get impatient and settle. And the waiting. Last time I started bringing young gymnastics relatives to the dealerships. When I felt the wait had become too long they went on tumbling runs through the showroom (this works well). I don't regret what I did, it was assembled in the U.S. I detest car shopping.

@Bren -

Please understand that it's not you personally that I'm teasing - it's more or so the failure to act upon the principles you espouse. You say "without those events, what would the world look like today," well, Hoffa wants to ask you image if everyone had adhered to the principles upon which they espoused and actually rejected goods made under exploitational conditions - what would the world look like today?

Consumer demand (greed) is more responsible for our present problems than any other factor. So why do you ignore this factor in favor of placing the blame on Washington or the mega-wealthy? Because it's easier to be able to point the finger at an evil boogeyman as opposed to expecting the masses to actually walk their own talk?

The only permanent solution is if people actually start walking their own talk - you know it, Hoffa knows it, everyone who's honest with themselves knows it. So again, why do you ignore it?

Mr. Hoffa, here's a quote from one of my comments above, "It's hard to look at the long view when vision is obscured by dollar signs. Those who offshored millions of jobs never considered what would/could happen in an economic downturn. People on the hunt for bargains often don't think about how an item can be sold so cheaply. Everyone has a measure of responsibility in our current situation. "

I don't disagree. But my car is a half-error. Toyota is a Japanese car company; my car was assembled here. My dad will ride in my car (and he has his choice of "chauffeurs") and that's good enough for me.

Brian, Randy's point below brings up the point that Obama had 6 months, not 2 years. That's not much time.

@Bren -

Don't forget that while it may have been assembled here, it was done so with a foreign manufactured drive-train (engine and transmission) by a company that firmly opposes employee unionization in a state that you've referred to time and again as a being a "right-to-work-for-less state."

And considering that the retail cost of a Toyota Camry is comparable to the cost of similar UAW offerings from domestic manufacturers, that means that Toyota is actually profiting more than the domestic companies on every unit sold. So not only are you supporting exploited labor, but you're also supporting excessive profits - another thing that you claim to despise!

Think about it!

Mr. Hoffa, I do understand what you're saying. It's a fine point that I wasn't the direct purchaser. Next time I am car shopping I will definitely look at American cars. And, regardless of what everyone I know tells me, I'm going back to manual transmission. This is the first automatic transmission vehicle I have ever owned and I can't shake the feeling that I'm driving an armchair. Where's the fun in that?

Bring back Cash for Clunkers, Bren needs to go shopping.

@Bren -

Tell you what - Hoffa will even take you car shopping! He can even get you green sheet pricing on the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep vehicle of your choice!

The SRT Viper has a sweet Tremec TR6060 six-speed manual transmission, made in the US. It may be the right ride for Bren.

Steve the Job Creator, I'll thank the Koch brothers and Fox for giving Walker the megaphone. Walker's job brief, regardless of the recall effort, was to promote the ALEC agenda nationally. He would have been taking his little junkets anyway, I'm quite convinced. The brightest aspect of the entire Walker debacle is that when our own little "shining star" is off pounding the ALEC pulpit in another state, he's not here.

Cool story bro. I pray you blue fisters keep up these crazy talking points so we can make you extinct once and for all.

@ Bren- can we thank Ed Schultz and Rachel Maddow? George Soros maybe too?

@Bren -

MS-NBC gave the Wisconsin recall battle far more time and attention than Fox News Channel did. And how exactly did the Koch Bros "giv[e] Walker the megaphone" exactly?

Even if Bren's little Walker fantasy was true, it is still doing more for Wisconsin than Barrett ever would have. Our state is in play, our state lives, forward Wisconsin.

Without ALEC Walker would be doing the same mediocre job as governor as he did as CE but on a larger scale. Joining that organization gave him easy to remember talking points, a to-do list and connections. His 30 pieces of silver/dangling carrot is the dream of national office.

Does MSNBC have the same level of influence on its market share as say, Fox? I think most MSNBC viewers appreciate that this is infotainment from a network by a multinational corporation (GE). Certainly the topics covered should be considered a jump point only. It was helpful for MSNBC to hold a spotlight on Walker and the other ALEC governors as one of these puppets will probably be groomed for 2016 or 2020 (the 2012 puppet, Cain, didn't fare too well). The more people who hear the "divide and conquer" "drop the bomb" memes the better, in my view. What rational person wants to elect an individual who perceives their own constituents to be the enemy, to be strategized against and dispatched using military parlance?

Greg, I don't know that the attention Wisconsin receives is positive. Being forwarded a BBC link on the Oak Creek shooting from an international relative and asked "have you completely lost it over there?" makes me ill. Over the past year, a number of calls (national) have included a pregnant pause and an "oh" when announcing the state I'm calling from. We've turned from a snarky, independent sort of state to "yikes" because of Walker and it's embarrassing.

Yes the Oak Creek shootings are bad press, but an honest person could remove them from the conversation. The "pregnant pause" is interesting, my conversations do not have that problem, it must be who we are calling. I think that if Wisconsin has any sort of bad image, it would be due to the re-callers and unions. Time will tell, but I never expect your bitter attitude to change.

Bren:

The next time your 'international relative' gives you crap about living in the same state as the Oak Creek shootings, maybe you can remind him/her that we at least don't have football hooliganism in Wisconsin...

So you were involved in the shooting Bren? I know you guys are full of despair, hate, and emotion over Walker winning and winning but get a grip and put the gun down.

@Bren -

"I think most MSNBC viewers appreciate that this is infotainment from a network by a multinational corporation (GE)."

Hoffa wholly disagrees - a majority of MS-NBC's viewers take the broadcasts and pundits as gospel - the 'shout stream' that Schultz highlights throughout his show is proof of this. And the Maddow show is consistently diaried over on the Daily Kos! It's indoctrination through propaganda!

@Keith Best....Pulled your string again, huh?

Lyle - Walker is here to stay, learn to live with him.

@Steve...Where did I say that the governor wasn't here to stay? He's my governor as well as yours and I accept that. I don't expect that he'll be in the position forever like Tommy because the governor has great ambition. He'll move on when people have had enough of him or a better offer comes along. If he can't get Wisconsin's economy turned around, he'll not get a second term.

I intend to hunker down until that day. Let's hope Scott Walker moves on into the private sector where, in the immortal words of Pete Venkman in Ghostbusters, they expect results.

Randy - Walker is here to stay, Learn to live with it and work to make him receive his full positive potential.

June 5th proved Walker is getting things done, fast. No hope and change needed
~in solidarity

@Steve -- I've learned to live with a lot of things over the past thirty years, including empty platitudes from the GOP. But thanks anyway.

But while we're here, what exactly has Scott Walker done, fast, other than a rate of job growth that trails the rest of the nation? It's been two months since June 5th and the end to all the 'uncertainty'. Where is this prosperity that he promised?

It's right on the tail of Hope and Change.

@Randy1949 -

All the dumb money is already in - you can thank your fellow blue fisters that we missed out on most of that thanks to the temper tantrum and 1.5 years worth of recalls.

The smart money is now on vacation and in wait and see mode for November. The recent national numbers confirm this to be the case.

But instead of pointing the finger at the mirror and at Obama, you'll continue to blame Walker.

@JRH -- Ah, the recalls! The gift that keeps on giving. I seem to remember you or someone else saying that once they were over we'd finally see the improvements. Now we have to wait for November? And if Mitt wins, how long will we have to give him to let his 'bold' policies work? Four years? Eight?

@Randy1949 -

Well, Reagan turned things around pretty quick as far as unemployment goes, didn't he? During his first 4 years, unemployment went from 11%+ to 4.6%. The same amount of time for Romney's policies to kick in should be sufficient.

@JRH -- Wikipedia doesn't agree with your figures.

"Spending during Reagan's two terms (FY 1981-88) averaged 22.4% GDP, well above the 20.6% GDP average from 1971 to 2009. In addition, the public debt rose from 26% GDP in 1980 to 41% GDP by 1988. In dollar terms, the public debt rose from $712 billion in 1980 to $2,052 billion in 1988, a roughly three-fold increase.[4] The unemployment rate rose from 7% in 1980 to 10.8% in 1982, then declined to 5.4% in 1988. The inflation rate declined from 10% in 1980 to 4% in 1988.[2]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics

So it rose and then it fell. Reagan also had a cooperative Congress, and it was during his administration that the FICA tax doubled.

@Randy1949 -

Hoffa stands corrected on his numbers - they were a summary of Reagan's entire tenure in the White House - not his first term. Yes, unemployment initially went up. But it takes a while for policy to kick in and filter down - look at Obamacare for example. It's also fact that the first year of any President's first term is largely attributable to the policies of the outgoing administration.

Hoffa has also always maintained that Reagan wasn't a great fiscal conservative. Even Reagan himself admitted that his tripling of the national debt was his greatest disappointment and failure. If only Obama was so candid and honest about his shortcomings!

And Reagan never had a majority Congress like Obama did during his first two years. For the first six years of the Reagan presidency (1981-87) The Republicans controlled the Senate, and the Democrats the House. In 1986, the Democrats recaptured the Senate (while retaining the House) and thereafter remained in control of both chambers until losing both in 1994.

Tip O'Neill did not exactly give Reagan totalitarian control of the federal government!

Keith, Walker's also the only governor with a criminal defense fund, one of only three governors in U.S. history to face recall, the governor famous for making the largest cut to public K-12 education in state history (1848-present), and the first governor to receive national attention for being punked by a prank phone call. Hooray.

I agree the national scene "should" embrace a bold leader who takes on challenges and makes decisions that work. But things being what they are, we'll probably get stuck with Walker instead. ; )

@Randy1949 -

Hoffa does have a DeLorean (it's the pinnacle of Hoffa car collection), but no flux capacitor, unfortunately.

Sounds like your district does indeed waste money needlessly. But that's not Walker's fault. Blame your neighbors.

No flux capacitor? You should demand your money back. I thought they came standard.

They aren't my neighbors. My kid got to go to the old school, Waukesha South. That building has to be almost fifty years old now. Thirty-some years earlier, when I went to Central Campus, the Union building dated to the 1800s, and the Lincoln building was a Depression era WPA project. And yet we learned to read and write. Amazing.

@Randy1949 -

That's just it - no one really knows for sure. Any independent outside private accountants that have taken the time to look at the federal books consistently say that they don't add up, are incomplete, etc.

Here's a pretty good assessment of the double talk that has been done by the Obama administration regarding the SS fund:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2011/07/13/what-happened-to-the-2-6-trillion-social-security-trust-fund/

More importantly, does it make sense to borrow money from the SS trust fund? You pay into the fund via your payroll taxes. The government borrows the money to itself to spend on other programs, but eventually has to repay the money with interest into the fund. As the government does not invest in for profit ventures, the only way it raises new revenues is from taxes. Thus essentially, when you receive your SS benefits, you will have effectively paid in more than 3 times for those benefits.

And you think that's a good system? That's completely insane and outrageous! By borrowing the money to itself and spending on other endeavors, the SS program is essentially costing more than 3 times what it should be costing to fund.

How could that system continue indefinitely? How can an investment in something that only spends money and generates no profit ever come out ahead? Unless you're constantly increasing taxes or the tax base?

Under this model of finance, it was doomed from the get go!

Given that the government does borrow money, it's better we should be our own creditors than, say, the Chinese. I recall as kids how we were encouraged to buy savings bonds. They weren't seen as an imposition on the taxpayer.

As for the missing money, have they checked the couch cushions in the Oval Office? But seriously, Clinton was not the only President to use money borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund. Bush II did it as well. Every President since FDR did it, to greater and lesser extents.

@Randy1949 -

Could you effectively run your household by borrowing money from yourself? Of course not! You either have the money to spend or you don't - you can't just create it out of thin air.

But that's exactly what our government is doing, at a currently alarming rate. This will effectively devalue our currency. And guess who's going to be the most hurt by a devaluing currency? I'll give you a hint -it's not the wealthy.

So why do you expect that concept to work in government?

Excuse me, Hoffa, but doesn't the entire economy work that way? We borrow money from ourselves to keep things moving. Money borrowed from Social Security is money the government doesn't have to borrow from someone else. It's money that doesn't have to be collected in taxes, at least right now.

@Randy1949 -

But how does such an economy sustain itself without either ever increasing taxes or an ever expanding tax base?

Is not the government part of the economy?

@Randy1949 -

Of course the government is a part of the economy. But you didn't answer Hoffa's question, did you? To model a system premised upon the assumptions that the government would always experience an ever increasing tax base or an infinite increase in revenues collected from taxes is about as naive as those who presumed that the value of real estate would never decrease - and where did that get us?

But, Hoffa, by your reasoning the whole principle of lending out money at interest shouldn't work then. And who becomes mega-rich by living off capital gains and dividends? The 1%. The 1% is to the rest of us worker/consumers as the government is to taxpayers. Both systems require growth.

@Randy1949 -

Incorrect - the borrowing of money to those who operate for profit works.

Walker wasn't even given six months with his majority before the running away to IL, occupation of the Capitol, death threats, boycotts, lawsuits, injunctions, recalls, etc. started.

Funny how conservatives didn't react to Obama in the same way that the left reacted to Walker, despite openly not caring for Obama and wanting him out, isn't it? And yet, we're constantly being told that it's the left that's more tolerant of others. Does anyone else see the irony and hypocrisy in that?

Obama could have gotten a lot done during that six months if he really wanted to and if his own party actually would have been behind him! Doesn't that prove that Obama wasn't a very effective leader even amongst his own party, yet alone in trying work across the aisle?

But that's what you want 4 more years of!

That's because Obama wasted months and months trying to court Olympia Snow and be bi-partisan. And, no, that merely proves he was not trying to ride roughshod over the opposition.

@Randy1949 -

Remember these beauties from Obama:

"Elections have consequences"

"I won"

"I won't give any ground"

Not to mention the multitude of crap that has come out of Biden's and Pelosi's mouths!

Yeah, that's really representative of an administration that was trying to "be bi-partisan" and "not trying to ride roughshod over the opposition," all right!

Come on!

But no "divide and conquer" or "drop the bomb" though.

@Bren -

Obama's class warfare and anti-business rhetoric is exactly "divide and conquer," just without using those exact words.

And while Walker did indeed say "drop the bomb," he NEVER once dropped the F-bomb, unlike our current Vice President.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHKq9tt50O8

@Randy1949....I have to correct you concerning the filibuster-proof senate. Al Franken did not take his seat until July 7th, 2009 and Ted Kennedy died August 25th, 2009. The Democrats held a 60 seat majority from 7/7/09 to 8/25/09. However, Kennedy was so ill that he couldn't participate during the last month of his life. You are correct that votes were put off until Kennedy's seat was filled and of course we now know it was filled with a Republican. So, essentially the claims that Obama had a filibuster-proof senate is just incorrect.

@Lyle -- I stand corrected. My memory was a little off, but I was including the interregnum after Kennedy's death, when his influence still was felt through his temporary replacement in that six months. Of course, they were very politely not voting on much that was important.

@Dirk -

Good heavens man up already - you've been crying long enough!

The DPW and blue fisters are the true poster children for divisive politics. And Barrett never out-debated Walker. All Barrett did during the debates was attack Walker while coming to the table with nothing of his own. Maybe Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, etc should have finished college as well, because they've proven themselves to be nothing but failures after dropping out, right?

You're nothing but an elitist fascist Dirk!

All Walker did was burble ALEC talking points and look scared. The guy's a puppet. Without his special interest-provided scripts and work lists, Walker's just an underachiever who can't read a labor or public art contract.

@Bren -

What were you watching - it certainly wasn't the gubernatorial recall election debates!

@Dirk -

In Hoffa's history books, fascism is described as being more of the far left-wing - state controlled nationalized economy, favors government legitimacy on perceived quality rather than quantity of support (much like your desire for our governor to have a college degree), etc.

Sources:

Sternhell, Zeev, Mario Sznajder and Maia Ashéri, The Birth of Fascist Ideology: From Cultural Rebellion to Political Revolution (Princeton University Press, 1994) p. 161.

Borsella, Cristogianni and Adolph Caso. Fascist Italy: A Concise Historical Narrative (Wellesley, Massachusetts: Branden Books, 2007) p. 76.

Care to try again with some actual sources to back up your bull?

A very popular argument by the Right is say that the Nazis were Left-wing, when in fact they were Right-wing in both Germany and the United States.
The Nazis were pro-Christian, anti-communist, certainly anti-Marxist, imprisoned atheist and labor leaders, hated minorities as we well know to the point of horrendous genocide, and viewed "liberals" as an enemy.

In America, German Fascism dazzled many American leaders of capitalist industry. They were William Randolph Hearst, Joseph Kennedy(JFK’s father), Charles Lindbergh, John Rockefeller, Andrew Mellon(head of Alcoa, banker, and Secretary of Treasury), DuPont, General Motors, Standard Oil (now Exxon), Henry Ford, ITT, Allen Dulles (later head of the CIA), Prescott Bush (don’t forget him), National City Bank, and General Electric.The "state controlled" economy was actually a form of the modern "military industrial complex" where huge profits were made, until the Allied bombs ended it all.

Hoffa can find a history theorist to satisfy any right wing misconception. Let's look at the facts.

@Dirk -

You cite no sources for your bull. In all reality, fascism combines elements of both the far left and far right wings while rejecting both traditional liberalism and conservatism as ill-legitimate forms of political governance.

As far as major fiscal and social policy goes though, they tend to resemble more of the far left wing than right wing. On top of the qualities I've already noted, there's strict military control of arms ownership and banning the commoners from owning and bearing arms outright, terminating unwanted lives/pregnancies without remorse, encouraging promiscuity among those of good breeding stock, etc.

Your mythology that the right wing is religious centric, hates labor, and is racist is simply stereotypical misconceptions promulgated by closed minded partisan types like yourself.

But hey, if you want to harbor and spread the hate by equating conservatives to Nazis, go right ahead and be my guest! Hey, there's another quality that fascists share with leftists - harboring and spreading hate towards those who don't think like them! You only help to prove the point ever so precisely and eloquently and don't even realize it! Ironic to say the least!

Hoffa - It is exceedingly difficult to succeed at accusing others of one's own transgressions and weaknesses, particularly when one has made thousands of comments. Spreading hate? Closed minded partisan? I have never been so hatefully and close-mindedly accused of being hateful and close-minded!

You have had an exceedingly desperate tone for about the last week.

Fascism arose from the very deep depression in Germany following World War I.
Foreign wars had emptied the Treasury. Hitler arose as the leader toward a new vision of prosperity and national strength. Minorities were generally blamed for the economic problems. The Aryan race was deemed superior. Bullies and toughs took the bait and joined the Nazis partially to beat and intimidate minorities, and act macho. The Jews took nearly all of the brunt of being a minoritiy, there were virtually no African-Germans nor Latinos. A liberal education was greatly disdained. Civil rights were taken from the minorities in stages. The Nazis became partners with capitalists and a huge military-industrial complex developed. Capitalists are always happy to do business with any regime from which they can make a big profit. The combination of the regime combined with the corporations was capable of pushing the common folk around as a tax source, suppress labor demands, etc. Natural resources were needed, oil being one of the primary needs, and foreign wars ensued.

Ifn America today, are there parallels? Tea, anyone?

Dick, your alleging that fascism is right wing is way off base. Facism and Nazism (National SOCIALISM) have more in common with Socialism and Liberalism.

Reread your history.

@ Lyle Ruble---I see Gramey Zee pulled YOUR string again.

Look, if you’ve been a successful Governor, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart Governor's out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. [Emphasis added]

If you were a successful Governor, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great public union somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in a state senate and WEA Trust insurance. If you’re a Governor — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

Lyle Ruble is by far the biggest wind bag of nonsense on the Patch.

@jeff gerardo..It is one thing to refute an argument with a counter argument, but it is something else to attempt to refute through an ad hominem attack, which adds nothing but challenge your credibility.

@Lyle -

Keith Best is right - there's nothing new here. It's little more than a summary of the same old same old Daily Kos / blue fist talking points.

Just to show how your points aren't even all that relevant, contrast with our President, who couldn't even get a single member of his own party to vote for his proposed budget.

It comes down to common sense - if you're a true leader and you have a good idea, people tend to fall in behind you. If the idea came from ALEC, kudos to ALEC for helping us out and our governor for being smart enough to recognize a good thing when he saw it. A good leader is open to all options, no matter where they might originate from.

Meanwhile, if your ideas are bad, like Obama's proposed budget, you have trouble convincing even those who claim to be on your side.

While Barack was out smoking crack rock, Walker was busy raising a family! I don't know about you, but my values are more aligned with Walker the family man than Barack the rock smoker!

Mr Ruble, I make it a practice not to play chess with monkeys.

What -- you lose too often when you do?

LOL

Well played, Randy...

Steve - If Walker became Governor, he did not get there on his own. Koch built that.

Look, if you’ve been a successful Governor, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart Governor's out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. [Emphasis added]

If you were a successful Governor, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great KOCH donor somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in a state senate wrote ALEC legislation. If you’re a Governor — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.

Steve - If you become Governor of Wisconsin and survive a recall, somebody bought that for you.

Did I not just prove that above? How dumb do you have to be to not understand that all it takes is money and the Koch brothers to win an election? Along with an ALEC agenda I do not understand why Barrett even ran against Evil Walker INC. I am so happy to realize that the conservative radical tea bagger movement will succeed forever just because it has more funding.

~ in solidarity
more money than you have

oak creek resident - If I were an Oak Creek resident today, I would at least be civil, if not somber, or maybe I mean sober.